Curse

Evilsod · Apr 05, 2007, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

I think whether Crippling Slash is too good depends on which condition goes on top.

Warrior/Ranger. Crippling Slash w/ Apply Poison, thats -7 degen and a cripple that can easily be covered even if it does go on top. This skill makes alot of sense in degen pressure since theres still nothing stopping it been chained with Gash/Final. I am looking forward to this, may be a reason to put down my hammer for AB.

mips · Apr 05, 2007, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

More lead attack buffs

And Buff paragons but nerf the Affects all paragon craps

Paragons are Leaders, How can a lEader LEAD another Leader and that leader in return Leads 3 other leaders...total BS

well basically it's called modern management...
about 3, 4 or 5 expanding layers of management driving each other up the walls, and only a few persons to actually do the work

nice necro change...
I just hope it means some skill will be needed to play MM again...
(not a pve problem, just a way to reduce the MM population a bit

SotiCoto · Apr 05, 2007, 11:59 AM // 11:59

It won't reduce the MM population at all.

MMs aren't really nerfed much at all by this.
It is the Blood and Curses necros that are nerfed...
And let us not forget that a further indirect nerf to Curses necros comes from the obscene hex removal ability of monks buffed here.

mafia cyborg · Apr 05, 2007, 12:01 PM // 12:01

the day we gonna see a viable build without a monk (the same way we see builds without mesmers,warriors,derv,srangers etc) it will be the day this game has achieved balance between profs and more fun value. at the present
moment there are no viable buolds without at least 2 monks which is crap.
nerf to GoLE and ZB is a tiny step in the right direction in hittin monk skill spammin.....cos monks low energy/low recharge skills +infinite energy are the ruin of this game.

Guildmaster Cain · Apr 05, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

That's very rational.

Ty, though exactly 1 year ago, we had a similar nerf to the necromancers. Everybody thought they would extict, so Bortak's weapons became suddenly very cheap and stuff. Eventually new methods were found and the Flesh Golem arrived at the scene. Prices went up again.

I wonder what will happen to Ghial's Staff...

MM's will live, just give it time till we find new builds to exploit. Ritualists got nerfed hard when Spirit Spamming was still hot, but after I unburried my Rt's corpse and animated him as a mummy, I found that I could create a new Spirit build and maintain it easily.

ead7 · Apr 05, 2007, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

.[*]Crippling Slash: now also inflicts Bleeding.
Crippling Slash also now causes Bleeding in order to improve its versatility and to make it more likely for players to equip it.

I am not sure why crippling slash doesn't do + damage. I am a big sword fan and i know that just dealing 2 conditions isn't enough. This skill also destroys the severe artery skills making the sever/gash/final thrust combo useless. I don't wanna waste a skill on just dealing cripple which probably is the one of the worst conditions. I would rather just use hexes to slow my opponents. I really think there should be + 25-35 damage or something like that, cuz this skills still sucks.

Also the avatar nerfs r getting old. I personally liked it when it first game out. Tho i do admit some of the were OP like Grenth and melandru. Put the recharge time and duration specs should be 90 seconds except for grenth cuz enchant removal can really hurt. I think most people would benefit if Grenth was only for 55-60 seconds tops.

I think ZB should of stayed the same. Protection prayer skills can eat up a lot of energy and this is the only skill that does the job. As for the other the other monk skills i think those did not have to be changed cuz no one used them in the first place

Necromancer:
Animate Bone Horror: decreased Energy cost to 10.
Animate Vampiric Horror: decreased Energy cost to 15.
Enfeebling Touch: decreased recharge time to 5 seconds.
Mark of Fury: decreased Energy cost to 5.
Mark of Subversion: changed duration to 6 seconds.
Poisoned Heart: decreased Energy cost to 5, decreased recharge time to 12 seconds.
Price of Failure: increased recharge time to 20 seconds.
Reckless Haste: increased Energy cost to 15.
Soul Reaping: now only provides Energy at a maximum rate of once every 5 seconds.

As for necros i think most of them are good until i stubbled upon the soul reaping update. This will destory necros and make them the worst class. If necros only get every 5 energy seconds when someone dies how will they benefit from soul reaping. In pve it will be a big problem because many people need it for extra minion spawning. In Pvp it will make necros be more vulnerable to spike attacks and to pressure which made them not suck in Pvp in the first place. I understand why u nerfed it. It was because there was too much minion factory with heal party. But you could at least make it 2 seconds. If u look at all the other main attributes of the other classes Strength can do a maximum of 16 armor penetration; Divine favor is extra healing; Eles have extra maximum energy; mesmers can cast faster and r more likely to interupt.

The nerf for rangers was needed and i am glad that u fixed rangers. They r now more open to pvp.

Badboy Thrasher · Apr 05, 2007, 12:06 PM // 12:06

lmao if the recovery/diversion combo was too powerfull, nerf recovery instead, and dont ruin one of the still usable mesmer skills

SF/SH eles and BoA sins might not be overpowered, but it gets bloody boring when you barely see a team without them

Evilsod · Apr 05, 2007, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ead7

I am not sure why crippling slash doesn't do + damage. I am a big sword fan and i know that just dealing 2 conditions isn't enough. This skill also destroys the severe artery skills making the sever/gash/final thrust combo useless. I don't wanna waste a skill on just dealing cripple which probably is the one of the worst conditions. I would rather just use hexes to slow my opponents. I really think there should be + 25-35 damage or something like that, cuz this skills still sucks.

All your opinions just became irrelevant the moment you said Cripple was a bad condition. This buff is exactly what Sword needed that 100 Blades should also do, stop forcing people to take Sever Artery. It doesn't need extra damage, the extra damage should come from Gash/Final. Your a warrior, you don't have slowing hexes (please god don't tell me your W/Me w/ Imagined Burden).

Quote:

The nerf for rangers was needed and i am glad that u fixed rangers. They r now more open to pvp.

Are you reading the same thing i am? The only skill that got nerfed was Bestial Mauling to stop Thumpers been so stupidly powerful vs lone monks (ie TA).

PS. Your sundering sword mod sucks.

TedTheDead · Apr 05, 2007, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Can't say i'm a fan at all of the Soul Reaping changes as my primary character is my Necro and that is a big impact on the gameplay, and the impact is definantly negative with no real silver lineing to speak of. It was nice when my minion army was taken out by a meteor shower to have my energy bar maxed out again so I could recover. Or if I was not playing MM, to be able to get energy for my excessively overprices curses from the deaths I was causing. I hope that is addressed, you did help MM strategies by lowering the cost of some startup minions, but the hit really makes it hard to use some of the curses that were expensive. Alot of times I was banking on multiple kills as a result of one of those curses to fuel the next one. Couldnt you have just stopped spirits from giving energy on death? Would make more sence to me, but...

That said the rest of the changes look great, I think I will be playing my Dervish more often and maybe reroll my PvP character as an Assassin.

moriz · Apr 05, 2007, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

It won't reduce the MM population at all.

MMs aren't really nerfed much at all by this.
It is the Blood and Curses necros that are nerfed...
And let us not forget that a further indirect nerf to Curses necros comes from the obscene hex removal ability of monks buffed here.

the nerfs to necro hexes with soul reaping doesn't really affect them that much. what it does prevent is 1 necro covering 5 enemies with hexes with no real way to stop it. the buffs to hex removal won't really destroy hexes by themselves. the only really huge buff is to deny hexes, but will require a pretty dedicated monk build to really make it shine. the rest of the hex removal changes merely makes them on par with holy veil, which is what's expected.

similarly, the nerfs to the domination line are cosmetic at best. guilt and shame are still extremely effective shutdown hexes even at 6 seconds duration. the extra 2 seconds on diversion doesn't faze it at all.

i think the biggest theme of the hex changes is that anet wants to promote point hexes with potentially powerful effect, and discourage stacking a billion hexes on anything that moves.

on a different note, with the change to crippling slash, perhaps it's time to relook crippling shot. compared to the new crippling slash, crippling shot is quite pathetic. perhaps lower the energy cost back down to 10.

stillborn nightengale · Apr 05, 2007, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Why doesn't anyone see the big problem with nerfing the Necromancer skills more and more? They keep messin' with the spells by makin' them less useful both in PvE and PvP. The recharge on most Curse spells is long enough and the cost was only bearable by the fact that Soul Reaping was something that could almost always be counted on when something died. Most of the Death Magic speels are minions limiting that branch only only two really useful builds which would be Virulence builds and MM builds. And though Blood Magic has the great effect of life steals none of the spells do significant enough damage to be useful. Necromancers probably have the least survivability in the game with little defensive spells and expensive conditional healing. I think that they either need to making the NEcro spells a little MORE useful or at least make spells that'll better their chances at surviving or being useful at something else besides draining life and summoning minions.

stillborn nightengale · Apr 05, 2007, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveller

I do agree that soul reaping needed a fix, but I reckon that the suggestions in the forums were more reasonable. Think about it like this: it says SOUL reaping. Do spirits or minions have souls? No? So don't make soul reaping trigger on them. Make it trigger on living beings, be it humans in PvP or mobs in PvE. (also do not make it trigger on Wammos, who have obviously sold their souls by using mending.) Much better fix in both sides of the game.

Constant mesmer and paragon nerfing seems really disappointing. Keystone signet is a bit less crap than before, whoop-di-doo. No one will still use it. A-Net, you better have those "good PvE options for mesmers" ready which you promised a while back, since now it's just frustrating to watch the constant nerfing.

Spirits = Souls of the dead.

yesitsrob · Apr 05, 2007, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Soul reaping nerf: I can think of some pretty decent reasons why this method was chosen to an extent. It makes Spirit Energy less retarded (though that really shouldn't exist), and also makes it less of a powerful tool at VoD - when all the droppings NPC will just provide you with indefinite healing till the enemy team drops.

I actually think Searing Flames should have got hit too. It's too simple, and has allowed for guilds to get page1/silver capes without really having to use any talent if they do have it.

I really don't think the problem with recall was the fact you couldn't get people out of your base. You could send a team there to chase them away, you could just never punish them because they have this double click and survive button. They still have that.

Shields up did need a nerf, but so did paragons, if anything just their armor levels so they can't just stand there and rape backline or tab + kill frontline.

I think we're going to be looking at a physical heavy meta. Which we were already getting to anyway, there will also be a significant amount of talentless shit still in the meta too, since it is apparently being encouraged.. Though maybe not in the form of Wash Machine or something.

I think again, this skill change is somewhat in the right direction, but considering how infrequent they are I don't think this is enough really

.

Crippling Slash will be an incredible skill. Too incredible perhaps, or is Crippling one of the worse condtions. Scrubs posts less.

Quote:

Please do NOT buff the Monk hex-removal so much. It is the bane of my life already. The amount of careful timing I need to get Spiteful Spirit on a Shiroken Monk and cover it with Parasitic Bond WITHOUT getting beaten down by Spellshield and Spellbreaker.... It was bad enough already. Now I might as well just stand there and attack it without skills at all.

How could this happen to me? I've made my mistakes, got no where to run.

SotiCoto · Apr 05, 2007, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by stillborn nightengale

Spirits = Souls of the dead.

Spirits don't die though; they are banished. As regards death, they are essentially already dead. If Soul Reaping was supposed to be working on spirits as the description claims then Necros should be able to reap them while they're still up and standing... which would be a mess and three quarters. Ideally... it just shouldn't work on them at all.

stillborn nightengale · Apr 05, 2007, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Spirits don't die though; they are banished. As regards death, they are essentially already dead. If Soul Reaping was supposed to be working on spirits as the description claims then Necros should be able to reap them while they're still up and standing... which would be a mess and three quarters. Ideally... it just shouldn't work on them at all.

Despite the fact that debating this, either my side or otherwise, is extremely lame spirits are not banished, if they were, you'd be unable to summon tehem again 'cause they'd be put to rest.

SotiCoto · Apr 05, 2007, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

the nerfs to necro hexes with soul reaping doesn't really affect them that much. what it does prevent is 1 necro covering 5 enemies with hexes with no real way to stop it. the buffs to hex removal won't really destroy hexes by themselves. the only really huge buff is to deny hexes, but will require a pretty dedicated monk build to really make it shine. the rest of the hex removal changes merely makes them on par with holy veil, which is what's expected.

Ok... a few clarifying points:

#1. A Curses Necro hexing someone with everything under the sun is their way of staying alive. It is their way of saying: "If you attack me, you will die first". It is essentially their only use. Take that away and they might as well just be flowers for the picking. Considering for the most part they don't do direct damage, and can be denied by inaction... they are at least as much defensive as offensive.

#2. While it might be bringing up other Hex-Removal to match Holy Veil.... it is important to note that some of us rely on groups of enemies in the wild NOT having the likes of Holy Veil. Hex Removal is a pain in the arse full stop to a Curses Necro... but making them all obscenely fast (and let us not forget Divine Favour works on every one of them) just means that there is literally NOTHING the Curses Necro can do to the monk and its group besides direct-attack... As an additional thought, similar things apply for Mesmers and Water Elementalists..... not to mention my Assassin's Promise main-char.

Onarik Amrak · Apr 05, 2007, 12:51 PM // 12:51

That is interesting...

Instead of changing one skill that causes problems (Mantra of Recovery), they change half a dozen other mesmer skills that work well with it instead. How odd.

Heaven is a Lie · Apr 05, 2007, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Wonder how effective the mm will be in elite areas after the nerf.

stillborn nightengale · Apr 05, 2007, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Ok... a few clarifying points:

#1. A Curses Necro hexing someone with everything under the sun is their way of staying alive. It is their way of saying: "If you attack me, you will die first". It is essentially their only use. Take that away and they might as well just be flowers for the picking. Considering for the most part they don't do direct damage, and can be denied by inaction... they are at least as much defensive as offensive.

#2. While it might be bringing up other Hex-Removal to match Holy Veil.... it is important to note that some of us rely on groups of enemies in the wild NOT having the likes of Holy Veil. Hex Removal is a pain in the arse full stop to a Curses Necro... but making them all obscenely fast (and let us not forget Divine Favour works on every one of them) just means that there is literally NOTHING the Curses Necro can do to the monk and its group besides direct-attack... As an additional thought, similar things apply for Mesmers and Water Elementalists..... not to mention my Assassin's Promise main-char.

By increasing the energy or recharge of any of the more useful damaging spells, you limit the Necro to only being able to doing any real harm to just one person. There is hardly any situation in which you'd only be facing one person. They keep saying that they're trying to increase build diversity, but they're really just limiting it with the Necro.

De Maximoff · Apr 05, 2007, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Once again the Mesmer has three skills unjustly changed. Mistrust, Guilt, and Shame have their durations cut almost in half. A Mesmer with 14 attribute points in Domination Magic gets a duration of ten seconds for each of these skills. The change once again is because of PVP. I am a PVE player so again three of the skills I use are being dictated by PVP. What is really sad about this is 'Watch Yourself’ was changed and Glyph of Lesser Energy is being changed to be based on attributes which is fine. However for the Mesmer exactly the opposite occurs. Duration will now have nothing to do with how many attribute points you have in Domination Magic. Only the damage and energy stolen will be affected which is in my opinion ridiculous.